Olin Moyles Ghost

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Posts by Olin Moyles Ghost

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  41

  Among the Most Destructive of JW Core Ideas!

  by AK - Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  'waiting for the real life'.

  they exploit the biblical text to mean in essence that jw's 'put off' normal human life until the new world.. i never thought of the damage that does until i began to review my life history.

  i have discovered that i am 35 years behind.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Great post, Jeff.

  When I think of some of my JW acquaintances, I feel so sorry for them. I think of otherwise intelligent people who barely scrape by financially because they've "bought out the time" to spend 70 hours a month riding around in a car knocking on not-at-homes.

  Or how about the single sister, now in her mid-40s, who made all the "right" decisions? She turned down the scholarships and pioneered right out of high school. She didn't pursue courtship because she wanted to "put kingdom interests first" and why get married now, when she could wait a few years and get a perfect man in the new system? Now, decades have passed and all she has to show for it is a four-door car, a one-bedroom apartment, a few cleaning jobs, and 25 years of full-time service.

  And what about the old-timers, like the 75-year-old brother with his polyester slacks and London Fog raincoat who is out there on the corner doing street work in the mornings--just like he's been doing for years. He was raised "in the Truth" by parents who were taken in during the Rutherford years. He thought he would never graduate high school--much less get married, much less have children, much less have grandchildren, much less bury his wife, much less die--in this system. Think of all the hours he's wasted slaving for the Corporation. What does he have to show for it? Decades of disappointments and broken promises.
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  16

  Generation Change

  by garlic81 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know there was an article on john barr's comments at the annual meeting this year.

  i've posted the reference below.

  i'm wondering if they are thinking of changing the belief back to that some annointed alive in 1914 will be alive when the tribulation starts?

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  I agree with OTWO. They won't go back to the pre-1995 interpretation. They don't need to.

  Look at the growth in publishers since 1995. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but if I recall correctly, the size of the organization has roughly doubled since then.

  There are plenty of suckers sheeplike people who are buying what the WTS is selling--even without the "1914 generation" providing a time limit on this system.
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  31

  So my elder/dad says he will shun me....i figured as much...

  by oompa in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i know many of you guys say the best way to show dubs is to be all happy and all when you exit.....but not all of us are doin that well at it....even though i have lost all friends from my dub life....i really dont want to lose my son and folks....this would happen if i end this odd and painful arrangement of a marriage to a really wonderful wife who is hardcore jw.

  my desire for freedom and normal social life, and the 800 lb gorilla in the room we live with are not doing so well...........i am tired of having to leave the house and go in the garage to talk on the phone with my non-dub friends.....tired of totally separate social lives.......tired of rules in place that prevent us from speaking about certain taboo topics with each other........my mental/emotional state is not well and has not been for four years.

  so i spoke with my dad very openly and honestly about how i have had to wear "masks" through life....one for school since third grade to fit in....another for my parents and jw friends........and that now i still lead a double life when not around my wife........told him outright i feel jws meet every single definition of a cult btw.......he already knew i felt that way but had never said it so directly........i asked him if he felt history repeats itself and could fds not be just like the scribes and pharisees that made so many rules for gods people that they had actually corrupted gods message............he said he has wondered that before too.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Sorry to hear that, man. I know you're not surprised, though.

  You should pursue the sailing thing.
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  101

  JEHOVAH, the greatest child abuser of them all!

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

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  can there be any doubt?

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Read the Bible and answer this: who killed more people--God or Satan? If you add up the dead bodies, it's God by a long shot. Just sayin'.

  Good thing it's all a myth. People tend to create gods that are like themselves. Evidently the ancient Hebrews were a violent, bloodthirsty, misogynistic people...or at least their leaders were.
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  11

  Closing Scene of Bill Maher's Religulous

  by the real life in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgfv6rxjmca.

  this is an entertaining and moving documentary on the idiocy of religion.

  i especially liked the closing speech.. "the plain fact is, religion must die for mankind to live.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  I like this: Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking.

  There's this absolute nutcase on A.M. radio named Michael Savage (he makes Limbaugh and Hannity look like moderates, but that's another conversation)--he has a book called "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder." I would like to revise his tagline as follows: Faith is a mental disorder.
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  54

  JW's Defend 607 BCE Teaching!

  by tryingtoexit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my father (who's an elder) just sent me this link...and i'd like to get yall opinions on it before i call him back:.

  apostates and other opposers argue that jerusalem was not destroyed in 607 bce, but in 587 bce, and provide what they claim is archaeological evidence to support this.

  if 607 bce is wrong, then the seven times prophecy ending in 1914 ce would be wrong also.. .

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  "I know that I may not be able to convince you on this point (((of Dan 4 having a fulfillment beyond Nebu))), or on the year 607 as the starting year, or whether the succession of Babylonian kings fit the timeline. I do not have the command of history or mathematics like you do. I do know this, though, that there was a beginning to the bad course man has taken in disobedience to God, and that there will be an ending of it at God's hands (Dan. 2:44). In Daniel 2 there is succession of world powers that are represented in Neb's dream by a large image, and that we are living in the days (at the feet of the image) that the destruction of all human governments will take place. My great desire for sharing this with you is because I care too much about you and want you and your family very much to be there in the new system of things to enjoy God's blessings with the rest of us... for "he that does the will of God remains forever". (1 John 2:15-17). "

  This is the kind of "reasoning" you can expect when discussing 607/1914 with a Witness. Once someone says this, it's clear that logic and truth don't matter. He's going to believe what he wants to believe--facts be damned.

  And isn't this attitude exactly like churchgoers we met in the JW ministry? We could show them dozens of verses about, say, the Trinity--but they would not be convinced. I remember walking away from such conversations feeling sorry for such ones who were "blinded by Satan" and weren't open-minded and receptive to my message. But I didn't realize that I was exactly the same.
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  15

  need help/backup about JW new light

  by highdose in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ok i'm trying to prove certain points to a jw i know who has questions.

  i need to know what the new light is about the "generation" and if possible where this new light was launched from eg watchtower, which article etc.... also it has been said here that there is a new thinking about 1935, that happened in 2008 i need to know for definate what this thinking is, and again where it was stated in the wbst litriture.... .

  please help this could mean alot to alot of trapped jw's... i can think of 4 already....

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  To piggy-back on what Undercover said, the "new light" / "old light" terminology is probably not something you'll see in print, esp. in the last couple decades or so. Sort of like the old term "present truth" which has died a merciful death.

  Terms like this are part of the unofficial JW vocabulary. Another classic example is calling the JW religion "the Truth." I don't recall seeing it in print much (if at all), but I guarantee you that if you say "the Truth," every single JW in the room will know exactly what you're talking about. And if you're a JW and refer to your faith in other terms (such as "the JW religion," the "JW faith," etc.), you'll get funny looks from your fellow JWs.

  Oh, and the "light gets brighter" scripture is Proverbs 4:18. If you read the whole chapter, you will soon realize what a ridiculous interpretation the WTS has! That passage has nothing to do with changing doctrine, rather it's a very general illustration about how the life of a righteous person is better than that of an unrighteous person. Nothing more; nothing less.
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  54

  JW's Defend 607 BCE Teaching!

  by tryingtoexit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my father (who's an elder) just sent me this link...and i'd like to get yall opinions on it before i call him back:.

  apostates and other opposers argue that jerusalem was not destroyed in 607 bce, but in 587 bce, and provide what they claim is archaeological evidence to support this.

  if 607 bce is wrong, then the seven times prophecy ending in 1914 ce would be wrong also.. .

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  @tryingtoexit: Thanks; glad to help. When you present your counterpoints, be prepared to get a response like "are you just trying to prove the JWs wrong?" or "where are you getting this info?" Witnesses typically expect you to be convinced by their first argument. If you present them with a counterpoint, then you're just being argumentative, hard-headed, and not "sheep-like." So be prepared for that.

  Also, if you want to read some more in-depth analysis of the 587/607 argument, check out AlanF's site: http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/part-1-summary.html.

  As you've likely already figured out, the 587/607 argument can become bogged down very easily. Try to keep control of the conversation and keep the focus on facts, not emotions, motives, etc. Remember that every single reference work dates the destruction of Jerusalem to 587 and that the 587 date has just as much archaelogical support as the 539 date (which the WTS uses to arrive at 607!!). Thus, anyone who accepts 539 but rejects 587 has the burden of proof.

  Finally, have you and your dad discussed the issue of whether there's a second fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy? If I was going to discuss the whole Gentile Times issue, that's the approach I would take. Basically, the whole idea of having a second fulfillment of that prophecy is a JOKE--it's not in the Bible at all...it's something that Russell borrowed from Adventist preachers of the 1800s and we're stuck with it today.

  Go ahead and read Daniel chapter 4 in its entirety and tell me how in the world you could get the idea that there are two fulfillments of that prophecy! It's such a load of bunk...it's embarrassing that I ever believed this nonsense.
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  76

  Circuit Assembly This Past Weekend "Safeguard Your Spirituality" -Everyone Please Enter-

  by tryingtoexit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so we had our circuit assembly this past weekend, and it was the first one in my life that i told my wife i would not be attending.

  we had a brief conversation on why, and she said well just go to this last one with me, and then when we can discuss what we learn and compare it to why you've been expressing your "new" feelings towards the wts.. i love my wife, and as much as i thought i was gonna hate it i decided to go.

  now that i no longer want to be a jehovah's witness it really didnt bother me that nobody hardly talked to me despite me living in this same area for 4 1/2 years, everybody views me as spiritually weak because i dont go out in service, rarely attend meetings, dont comment, lesson is never underlined, so the "friends" never interact with me anyway and i'm use to it, actually that's the way i prefer it.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  If you have a profile on a social network YOU ARE BAD ASSOCIATION.

  Man, I hope this ends up in an article! I know tons of JWs "in good standing" who have Facebook profiles. These include elders' wives, pioneers, and even some elders. For some reason, I think the understanding is that Myspace is bad but Facebook is ok.
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  15

  need help/backup about JW new light

  by highdose in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ok i'm trying to prove certain points to a jw i know who has questions.

  i need to know what the new light is about the "generation" and if possible where this new light was launched from eg watchtower, which article etc.... also it has been said here that there is a new thinking about 1935, that happened in 2008 i need to know for definate what this thinking is, and again where it was stated in the wbst litriture.... .

  please help this could mean alot to alot of trapped jw's... i can think of 4 already....

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Regarding the Generation doctrine, here's the "Cliff's Notes" version:

  1. For decades until 1995, the Witnesses taught that when Jesus said "this generation shall by no means pass away until all these things occur," he was talking about the generation of people who were alive and able to perceive the events of 1914. I refer to this as the "1914 generation."
  2. Then, in 1995 the Watchtower said that "this generation" spoken of by Jesus simply meant wicked people alive during the "last days." Importantly, it no longer meant people alive in 1914...it just meant wicked people alive during the last days.
  3. In the Feb. 15, 2008 edition, the Watchtower changed it again. Now "this generation" means anointed JWs alive during the last days. "This generation" still has nothing to do with 1914...but it's just a flip-flop from wicked people to anointed Christians.
  4. [There's some speculation about a further change, based on someone's notes from the recent Annual Meeting, but since nothing's in print yet, I wouldn't recommend bringing it up to your friend.]

  Regarding the 1935 change, I believe it was 2007. This was a Questions From Readers article in a 2007 (I'm thinking May) Watchtower. Before this article, the WTS taught that the heavenly calling ended in 1935. This meant that any post-1935 anointed JWs were "replacements" for pre-1935 anointed who became unfaithful.

  The 2007 article changed that. I don't recall the exact wording, but it was to the effect that it's possible that there are "new anointed" after 1935. This was not met with much fanfare in the JW world (as far as I can tell), because it's an arcane theological point and most JWs don't really care about such things. But it's pretty interesting to "us" because it shows that the WTS locked the gates of heaven from 1935 to 2007, but then opened them again. Pretty wild when you think about it!